Opinions on bottomless pits.

[ShadowTiger]

Wanted to get everyones' opinion on the concept of a bottomless pit. Remember how in Ninja Gaiden, if an Eagle knocked you off of your path, and you fell into a bottomless pit, you started to swear, tear out your hair, (Possibly other peoples' hair.) and threw your computer to the ground? Yep. Hello again, Chasm. Bats are kinda like those Eagles, on occasion.

Perhaps bottomless pits could actually lead to the room immediately below it instead? If the same type of pre-generated room were to be generated on a space where there is no room beneath it to land in, there could be spikes (and a way out) there instead?

Basically, the concept of immediate death for having your jumps interrupted by annoying creatures is a very -not fun- concept. I keep hearing this over and over again, both here and elsewhere. Just wanted to get everyones' thoughts on it.

[Ianuarius]

I always wondered why people think the pits are bottomless. What if it's like 300 feet fall? Sure, it's not bottomless, but at that point it really doesn't matter.

I like the idea of falling to the room below, tho. Makes me think of Nethack.

[Linkshot]

Definitely makes more sense in a level design scheme for it to either drop you to the room below or even to the level below. How about make it a crapshoot?

[poe]

I like the idea of it dropping into a room below.

[Aevumas]

Or both. Sometimes you take damage as you do now, others you fall into the room below, depending on how the room was generated. Adds an extra variety of maze-ness to it.

[kevinski]

I don't feel that "bottomless" pits (I'll just call them pitfalls.) make sense in games like this. You have to be really careful about how they're displayed. If it's not blatantly obvious which pitfalls are deadly and which ones are necessary for progression, then I'd prefer to not see them.

I don't mind if there are obstacles or traps that kill the player character instantaneously, however. As an example, rather than having a pitfall that the player character falls into, put a vat of acid or a pool of lava in its place. You could even go a step further and work stuff like this into the difficulty level. Offer an Insta-Kills option that you can toggle off and on. If it's turned off, then those vats of acid and pools of lava appear as spikes that merely damage you. Turn it on, however, and you've got insta-killing vats of acid and pools of lava.

[Nagisawa]

I will vote no. Mainly because of the way the mapping system is done. It looks silly when you have a bottomless pit above a room that has a floor. And let's face it, so far this is a mine, I seriously doubt the miners would dig THAT deep.

I like the idea of an insta-kill options for those of you who want a 'hard-core' experience, though.

[Ianuarius]

Well there are such things as NATURALLY occuring pits that can by chance be in the location where you decided you have your mine. Also the very opening narration mentions an earthquake which could very well dislocate few of the mine shafts etc. So, no, of course miners are not gonna dig bottomless pits, but there might be some anyways.

The argument that there are rooms right below the pitfalls is kinda rubbish, too, because it's not like this is a 3D game. You don't know if the room below is right below or maybe 100 feet in front of it or whatever. You might've noticed that in the town you don't have to jump over the buildings because they aren't directly in your way but rather on the background.

All that being said, it would be more FUN if the pitfalls led the character to the room directly below it and that's reason enough. You don't have to try and justify it with pointless logic.

[Nagisawa]

'Pointless logic' to you is internal consistency to me. I'd rather not have my sense of immersion destroyed when I died from a pit with no bottom, which happens to be above a shrine room.

Not to mention that it's a kind of a cheap trick, it's fine if you can't see the bottom because the screen only shows the half or quarter of the stage and there's spikes below, but if you die because you want to explore and not realize that there's no floor below.

[Cheetah]

Bottomless pits have certainly sparked quite a bit of debate, but shouldn't we really be calling them "Chasm"s anyways?

Here was my thought on how to make the bottomless pits not so bottomless and perhaps a little more fun. I like the concept of having to carefully traverse across and area for the fastest route and the bats making it particularly difficult. Now if you miss a platform the player needs to use the light cues coming up from the lava to try and fall on top of a platform instead of lava. I don't know what the plan for lava was for the game as a whole, but the Chasm logo certainly foreshadows some involvement. The player would then have to carefully climb there way back up the chasm to try again. I also feel like the random level generation could be taken a step further as a whole. In addition to randomizing maps, enemies, and items; it would be cool if you mixed up some of the platforming elements in the room with it still be the same basic room. For instance on these chasm room maps you could have bridges present spanning some of the gaps, but the number and placement could change base on the iteration of the chasm room map. Plus this would allow for collapsing bridges, which would be pretty epic right here.

Disclaimer: Credit to the original Discord games team for design and colors.