Level Up

[Ianuarius]

We just had some brainstorming(farting) in the chat about this and here are my thoughts again:

That level up in Chasm is kinda anticlimactic. I like in Diablo how when you level up you go to the character screen to spend the points. It's really pointless and stupid but it feels awesome! Like start playing with a mage and put all your points in stenght! Who does that? But it gives you the illusion of choice and like you're progressing and reminds you that YES you're actually getting more powerful! It gets the player interested in the stats.

I feel that there needs to be some sort of leveling up activity like this even if it technically didn't matter at all. The thing that matters is how it affects the player!

[kevinski]

I prefer to not have to do that unless the game is making it a point to offer multiple classes. In a game with a single playable character with a predefined storyline and origin, I don't see the need for stat distribution. I like the current approach.

[alef321]

Chasm does not need point system , just lvl up your char and its done , no fuzz . all castlevanias with RPG system ignore that because its simply not needed , imagine focusing on Magic DPS and not being able to finish a boss ,and them having to farm like a mothe-fu because you made a mistake , its too much of a hassle

[TobiasAmaranth]

If you want a more impressive level up, take the same sort of effect you get in Diablo 3. KABOOM.

My personal worries towards leveling up is with how stats affect gains to HP/MP (I haven't done enough research to see if this is the case). I think Constitution and Intellect should have a direct effect on current HP/MP rather than have those stats contribute to a gain upon level up. They currently do not do the former so I worry that the latter is what is happening. I think that would encourage players (min-maxers) to carry around a set of high Con/Int items and monitor their experience gains so that when they are close to leveling up, they equip their alternate gear to gain the most effect.

[Ianuarius]

Well, currently there's no point in having the character to level up at all. Just remove it and nothing's lost.

[TobiasAmaranth]

*Ponders if you've played any of the DS Castlevania games*

Also, they can do some fun things with level ups by adding in "Classes" (term used loosely) - http://discordgames.com/forums/viewtopi ... rt=40#p414 See what I posted here for examples.

[Ianuarius]

I have played Dawn of Sorrow and Order of Ecclesia. Also played Symphony of the Night and a couple of GBA Vanias. And I don't think the Level Up matters at all in those games. Just drop the healt of the harder enemies and you've got a completely pointless mechanic removed.

[TobiasAmaranth]

There's a few advantages to it.

1. There's a psychological impact of 'yay, I'm stronger' that people, in general, tend to enjoy experiencing. That said it's important to present it in a proper energetic way. Sound effects, graphics, etc all play a role in this.
2. It can offset a variety of skill levels by allowing players to grind beyond simply the items they can buy in shops. If you're having trouble somewhere, get some more levels, and suddenly you aren't getting crushed. Not everyone is great at these games.
3. I point at the 'class' variants again and feel that attempting those without the level up system would take away a bit of the charm.
4. Having all of your stats climb as you progress keeps players from suffering deficits in any particular stat versus the constant boosts that better and better items give. A character with a total of 200 STR and 10 CON would be kind of silly. Without a leveling system that boosts base stats, you would need items that gives 50 STR and 20 everything else, for example, instead of just 30-50 STR, which is also rather silly.

[Ianuarius]

1. There's a psychological impact of 'yay, I'm stronger' that people, in general, tend to enjoy experiencing. That said it's important to present it in a proper energetic way. Sound effects, graphics, etc all play a role in this.

That's exactly what there ISN'T. In Fallout you have that feeling cos you're assigning points and weighting options and then choosing what perk to got best with your playstyle. Here levelup is just "YAAAY A LEVELU...ohh" and then continue playing like nothing EVER happened. Mega Man doesn't have levelups. Chasm doesn't need one either.

2. It can offset a variety of skill levels by allowing players to grind beyond simply the items they can buy in shops. If you're having trouble somewhere, get some more levels, and suddenly you aren't getting crushed. Not everyone is great at these games.

Mega Man doesn't have levels. Just drop the health of the harder enemies to the par and you're good to go. If the game is too hard, play on easy.

3. I point at the 'class' variants again and feel that attempting those without the level up system would take away a bit of the charm.

But there aren't classes. Even if there were you could do everything with items. That's how Terraria rolls.

4. Having all of your stats climb as you progress keeps players from suffering deficits in any particular stat versus the constant boosts that better and better items give. A character with a total of 200 STR and 10 CON would be kind of silly. Without a leveling system that boosts base stats, you would need items that gives 50 STR and 20 everything else, for example, instead of just 30-50 STR, which is also rather silly.

Yeah, well why do the items need to give stats at all?

[TobiasAmaranth]

Currently you're trying to change what the game is at its core rather than leaving the core alone and fixing the problem you are having from a different angle. You want to remove the entire level up system and the entire stat system in a game that specifically is revolving around the progression of loot and enemy strength, where instead you should come up with ideas to make leveling up more interesting. And no, assigning stat points manually in a game with this type of feel would be a bad thing (in my eyes). I don't want to have to enter the menus on this more than I have to. I don't want to constantly switch around my equipment. I already think it needs an auto-eat button so I can stay out of the menus. In the end, though, I think you're misinterpreting what type of game this is so I'm going to bow out of the topic at this point.

Oh and you just told every classic Final Fantasy / Dragon Quest style RPG ever that leveling up and having stats is pointless. (Exaggerating but it's the same system, buy better items, kill more enemies, get pre-scripted level-ups. Newer ones you have a secondary skill system but the base EXP, Stat, Level system is essentially the same thing that's used here.)